Gregori Šnulo

Gost: Gregori Šnulo, zamenik komandanta Nacionalne garde Ohaja

Razgovor vodio: Predrag Blagojević

JV: Tokom poslednjih deset godina Vojska Jugoslavije a nešto kasnije Vojska Srbije, intenzivno je sarađivala sa Nacionalnom gardom Ohaja. Verujem da građani Srbije najbolje pamte angažman američke vojske u civilnim aktivnostima kojih je bilo dosta i na jugu Srbije. Razgovaramo sa generalom Gregorijem Šnulom, zamenikom komandanta Nacionalne garde Ohaja. Mr. Snulo, first of all welcome to south of Serbia, and can you tell us what are the main accomplishments of your cooperation with Serbian armed forces from your personal perspective?

JV: G-dine Šnulo, najpre dobro došli na jug Srbije. Možete li nam reći koja su najveća dostignuća vaše saradnje sa Vojskom Srbije, iz vaše lične perspektive?

First, thank you for inviting me here. I would tell you that over the course of my time when coming to Serbia and the first time I came to Serbia was 2007, the highlights of the cooperation have been friendship and relationships we developed over that time. We initially came and we first started to do this partnership, it was kind a, it’s like getting to know new friends, you don’t really know each other, it’s difficult to cooperate when you don’t have a friendship. So over the course of the ten years we’ve developed friendships and relationships so the point now are our cooperation and collaboration that are very effective. We can do exercises now that we could not have done five, ten years ago. Just because of level of trust we have between our National Guard and the Serbian armed forces, and that this every accomplishment we’ve built off of the last one, so we are doing some and have done some very interesting things over the last ten years.

Najpre, hvala što ste me pozvali. Moj boravak u Srbiji, a počev od 2007. kada sam prvi put došao u Srbiju, posebno su obeležila prijateljstva i odnosi koji su se tokom tog vremena razvili. Mi smo došli i krenuli da razvijamo partnerstvo, to je bilo kao kada upoznajete nove prijatelje. Ne poznajete se najbolje, a teško je sarađivati kada nema prijateljskog odnosa. Tako smo tokom desetogodišnjeg perioda razvili prijateljske odnose pa je sada akcenat na našoj saradnji koja je vrlo efektivna. Sada možemo da realizujemo vežbe koje nismo mogli da realizujemo pre pet i deset godina, sve zahvaljujući nivou poverenja koje postoji između naše Nacionalne garde i srpskih oružanih snaga, postigli smo velike uspehe. Radimo i radili smo mnogo interesantnih stvari tokom prethodnih deset godina.

JV: Together with Serbian armed forces, you have been helping citizens of Pcinjski District, in Vranje, and you’ve helped the reconstruction of the schools. Why is the connection between military, the army, and citizens so important?

JV: Zajedno sa Vojskom Srbije, pomagali ste građanima Pčinjskog okruga, u Vranju. Pomogli ste rekonstrukciju škola. Zbog čega je veza između vojske i građana tako važna?

It’s a, the citizens are the reason why we exist. The reason you have a military is because of the citizens of the country. And the citizens are also where we get our soldiers and our airmen so, it’s very important for us to be able to work with the citizens and provide, to help citizens to get stuff done, whether that’s response to the national disaster, floods or something like that, we are here to help the citizens both in US and the citizens in Serbia.

Građani su razlog našeg postojanja. Razlog zbog koga uopšte imate vojsku jesu građani jedne države. Takođe, vojnike i avijatičare i dobijamo iz redova građana i zbog toga je važno da možete da sarađujete sa građanima i pomognete im da se neki posao uradi, bilo da je to odgovor na prirodnu katastrofu, poplave ili slično, mi smo ovde da jednako pomognemo građanima u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama i u Srbiji.

JV: So it’s not just to you to be used in the times of war?

JV: Znači, vaša uloga nije vezana isključivo za rat?

Not at all. Not at all. It would be kind of boring between the times of war if all we did was focus on the war fight. And I am not saying that we don’t, we train for war all the time, but to be able to help the citizens is, particularly in the National Guard, that’s way we’ve joined to National Guard, that’s why are part of the National Guard. We are homemade response force, and when working with the Serbian armed forces they are also concentrating on the citizens of Serbia, to help them out.     

Ne, nikako. Bilo bi dosadno kada bismo se i u periodu između ratova bavili samo ratnim borbama. Ne kažem da se time ne bavimo, treniramo za takve potrebe sve vreme, ali i zbog toga da možemo da pomognemo građanima. Posebno u Nacionalnoj gardi, zbog toga smo se i priključili Nacionalnoj gardi, zbog toga smo i deo Nacionalne garde.

JV: Recently, let’s stay in the south of Serbia for some time, recently it was announced that Serbian military base close to Bujanovac will become Educational centre for peacekeeping missions. As I understand, you will be helping in to achieve that goal. How it will look like and when it will start?

JV: Nedavno, u južnoj Srbiji, bilo je objavljeno da će vojna baza blizu Bujanovca postati Edukativni centar za mirovne misije. Koliko sam razumeo, vi ćete pomoći ostvarivanje ovog cilja. Kako će centar izgledati i kada će početi sa radom?

I would say it’s already started, we’ve had exercises like platinum wolf, which have had peace keepers from all around the world that have come to the south base, it will continue above. The nice thing about the way it’s built is you can adapt many missions to different scenarios, so to say what is going to end up looking like it would be kind of difficult right now, and that you want it to be able to be something that you can train different events there, if that makes sense. It’s got to be adoptable to whatever mission may come up in the future as far as peace-keeping operations.

Rekao bih da je već i počeo sa radom. Imali smo vežbe kao što je “Platinasti vuk” koji je okupio mirovnjake iz celog sveta u bazu "Jug" i to će se nastaviti. Ono što je dobro u vezi sa bazom je to kako je ona napravljena i mogućnost njenog prilagođavanja mnogim misijama sa različitim scenarijima. Teško je ovog trenutka reći kako će baza izgledati na kraju ali je namera da se koristi za različite vežbe i događaje. Mora biti prilagođena bilo kojoj misiji koja će se desiti u budućnosti kao i mirovnim operacijama.

JV: Is there some time plan maybe? When it will start?

JV: Da li postoji neki vremenski plan? Kada će se sa time početi?

I don’t, again I would say that it already has started, we already are working and that there are already been exercises there. So, as far as a …hard start date I don’t know if I can give you that.

Kao što sam pomenuo, centar je već počeo sa radom. Već radimo i održane su vežbe. Nisam siguran da Vam mogu reći neki konkretan datum.

JV: Some officers from Serbia have passed education in your camps in United States. What they could learn over there and is there anything that you could learn from them?

JV: Neki oficiri iz Srbije su pohađali određene programe u vašim kampovima u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama. Šta su oni mogli tamo da nauče i da li postoji nešto što ste vi mogli da naučite od njih?

This partnership between our National Guard and Serbia has been a great example what we can learn from each other. Not only our formal schools, we do, Serbian officers and NCO – non-commissioned officers do go to some of our military schools in United States, but just to continue cooperation between our forces, whether its exercises, exchanges, our National Guard coming to Serbia or Serbian armed forces coming to Ohio, just to work together we are learning every day. The Serbian soldier is very proud, very resourceful, very competent, and we often learn just by standing next to the Serbian soldiers, a lot of different things. Our country is a very young country, your country has been around quite a bit longer and it’s a different history, it’s a different outlook, so whenever we can get together to work it makes us both better.

Partnerstvo koje postoji između naše Nacionalne garde i Srbije je odličan primer šta smo mogli da naučimo jedni od drugih. Ne samo kada su u pitanju škole, srpski oficiri i podoficiri zaista pohađaju vojne škole u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama, već i sam nastavak saradnje između snaga, bilo da se radi o vežbama, razmenama, naša Nacionalna garda dolazi u Srbiju ili srpske oružane snage dolaze u Ohajo, čak i kada samo radimo zajedno, učimo svakog dana. Srpski vojnik je veoma ponosan, snalažljiv, veoma kompetentan, i često učimo dok samo stojimo pored srpskih vojnika, mnogo različitih stvari. Naša zemlja je mlada, vaša zemlja postoji dugo i ima drugačiju istoriju, to je drugačija perspektiva, tako da kad god možemo da radimo zajedno to nas čini boljim.

JV: Only fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years ago, the Serbian armed forces and US armed forces were on the separate sides. Now, you work together. You work with soldiers. Can some things from the past become a problem or, I guess, you manage to solve that?

JV: Pre samo petnaest, šesnaest, sedamnaest godina, srpske oružane snage i oružane snage Sjedinjenih Američkih Država bile su na različitim stranama. Sada sarađuju. Vi radite sa vojnicima. Mogu li neke stvari iz prošlosti postati problem ili, pretpostavljam, uspevate to da prevaziđete?

I will tell you from my personal experience. The Serbian soldiers and the United State are professional soldiers. We treat each other with respect, we understand the business that we are in, we understand that sometimes we are asked to do things that may not be popular around the world, but that’s what we buy off when we become soldiers or airmen in our case, so, I would say again in my personal experience, I have not experienced any issues with the Serbian armed forces because again we are expected to be professionals. If there were an issue it hasn’t bubbled up as far as I know. The Serbian people, everywhere we go, very welcoming, very, just great hosts. Personally and again, I have been coming here since 2007, I have not experienced any sort of bad relations based on the events of sixteen years ago.    

Reći ću Vam iz mog ličnog iskustva. Srpski vojnici i vojnici Sjedinjenih Američkih Država su profesionalni vojnici. Jedni druge tretiramo sa poštovanjem, razumemo posao koji obavljamo, razumemo da se od nas ponekad očekuje da radimo stvari koje nisu popularne u svetu, ali za to smo plaćeni kada postanemo vojnici ili avijatičari u našem slučaju. Ponovo kažem, nikada nisam imao loše iskustvo sa srpskim oružanim snagama jer se od nas očekuje da budemo profesionalci. Ako je i postojao problem on nije postao očigledan koliko ja znam. Narod u Srbiji, gde god da odemo, veoma je gostoljubiv, izuzetni su domaćini. Lično, od kada sam došao ovde 2007. godine, nisam iskusio nikakvu vrstu loših odnosa zasnovanih na dešavanjima od pre 16 godina.  

JV: Citizens of Serbia, let’s go back to citizens, citizens of Serbia have heard a lot of about Ohio National Guard, but I am not completely sure that they really understand who are you. I mean, can you, in short, tell us what are your mission and goals, and, at the end, who commands the Ohio National Guard?

JV: Građani Srbije, da se vratimo na građane, dosta su čuli o Nacionalnoj gardi Ohaja, ali nisam sasvim siguran da zaista razumeju ko ste vi. Možete li nam, ukratko, reći koji su vaša misija i ciljevi, i na kraju, ko komanduje Nacionalnom gardom?

OK, the Ohio National Guard is a…every state in the United States has a National Guard. National Guard consists of army national guard and the international guard. So I wear the uniform of, I am in the international guard, I wear the uniform of the United States air force, I train next to the United States Air Force, we deploy with the United Sates Air Force. We do everything they do. We are predominantly a part-time force, a reserve, for the United States Air Force, and same on the army side. So, in Ohio we have 12000 soldiers and 5000 airmen and out of that roughly one third of those are full time to train the force to keep everybody that are in our formations current and good at their jobs, but the best majority of National Guards may have other jobs as lawyers, teachers, policemen, you name it, and then one week in month, and many other times, they put on the uniform of the United States and they do military things. But the nice thing about the National Guard is we actually work for the State of Ohio primarily, so if something happens in the State of Ohio, we are the first ones, we are not the first ones, that’s not the right way to put it, we try to be some of the first ones there if there is the disaster, any way we can help out the citizens. And what I mean by we are not the first ones there, is we do not control the operation if there is a disaster relief. We work for the local armed force or the local disaster responders, we don’t go in and take over an event, we work for the civilians that are working on that event.

U redu. Nacionalna garda Ohaja je… Svaka država u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama ima svoju Nacionalnu gardu. Nacionalna garda se sastoji od Vojske Nacionalne garde i Internacionalne garde. Ja nosim uniformu…, ja sam u Internacionalnoj gardi i nosim uniformu Avijacije Sjedinjenih Američkih Država, treniram pored Avijacije Sjedinjenih Američkih Država, razvijamo se sa Avijacijom Sjedinjenih Američkih Država. Radimo sve što rade oni. Mi smo uglavnom snage koje se angažuju sa skraćenim radnim vremenom, rezerva za potrebe Avijacije Sjedinjenih Američkih Država a isto tako i za potrebe vojske. U Ohaju imamo 12.000 vojnika i 5.000 avijatičara, i ugrubo, jedna trećina njih su redovne snage sa punim radnim vremenom koje treniraju sve one koji su u našim formacijama i održavaju ih u formi kako bi bili dobri u svom poslu. Ali velika većina pripadnika Nacionalne garde ima i druge poslove: advokata, učitelja, policijaca i drugih, a onda jedne nedelje u mesecu, i još ponekad, obuku uniformu  Sjedinjenih Američkih Država i bave se vojnim stvarima. Ali dobra stvar u vezi sa Nacionalnom gardom je da mi zapravo radimo za Državu Ohaju prioritetno, tako da ako se nešto desi u državi Ohajo, mi smo prvi, zapravo nismo prvi, ovo nije dobar izraz,  pokušavamo da budemo među prvima ukoliko se desila katastrofa, da pomognemo građanima. A šta mislim pod tim da nismo prvi, mi ne upravljamo operacijom, ukoliko se radi o pružanju pomoći zbog neke katastrofe. Mi radimo za lokalne oružane snage ili za službe zadužene da reaguju u vanrednim situacijama, ne upadamo i ne preuzimamo vođenje i upravljanje samim događajem, radimo za civile koji rade na tom slučaju.

JV: I have to ask you. I mean, I grew up in Yugoslavia, and now in Serbia, and I think people from Balkans had quite different point of view when we talk about military activities. You have been serving in army for almost three decades or maybe more?

JV: Moram da Vas pitam, ja sam rastao u Jugoslaviji, i sada u Srbiji, i mislim da ljudi sa Balkana imaju malo drugačiji pogled kada govorimo o vojnim aktivnostima. Vi ste služili u vojsci skoro tri decenije ili duže?

More. Much longer.

Duže.

JV: Do you think that role of army have been changing? I mean the doctrine and the approach?

JV: Da li mislite da se uloga vojske menjala? Mislim na doktrinu i pristup?

I do. Over the course of my career, as you know in the United States 9.11 changed everything for us, we are involved in operations around the world a lot more than we used to be. Now in the air force we’ve been pretty much since desert storm, it’s been a constant deployment and the National Guard has been doing it with the air force. But over the all, I would say the largest shifts I have seen in my military course is more focused on the home land for, to help out with you know like Katrina hurricane 2005, or some of the national disasters that we had or it could be manmade disaster or airspace control. We are, not that I don’t want you to think that we weren’t focused on our homeland before, but I think now helping citizens seems to be, that’s probably one of the most sweeping changes that I’ve seen, that’s the focus on helping the citizens in the United States. And working with the Serbian armed forces, they are always focused on the Serbian citizens.

Mislim da jeste, tokom moje karijere. Kao što znate u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama 9.11. je sve promenio za nas, sada smo uključeni u operacije širom sveta mnogo više nego što smo bili ranije. Sada smo u vazduhoplovstvu još od pustinjske oluje, ovo je konstantan raspored i Nacionalna garda radi sa avijacijom. Ali pre svega, rekao bih da najveća izmena koju sam video tokom svoje karijere jeste fokus na domovinu, pružanje pomoći u slučajevima kao što je uragan Katrina ili neke druge elementarne nepogode koje smo imali, ili u nepogodama koje je prouzrokovao čovek ili kontrola vazdušnog prostora. Mi smo, i ne bih voleo da pomislite da ranije nismo bili fokusirani na domovinu, ali mislim da je sada pružanje pomoći građanima verovatno jedna od najvećih sveobuhvatnih promena koje sam video, fokus na pružanju pomoći ljudima u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama, a rad sa Vojskom Srbije, oni su uvek fokusirani na srpske građane. 

JV: Military camps in Serbia, as I can remember, until two years ago, had the big fences around them, very high walls, but that is changing now increasingly. Now, fences are made from the wire, so you can see through, you can see what is happening inside the base camp, I mean citizens can see. As I had a chance to see in United States, it’s quite similar. What is the reason for that? Is it a matter of transparency in work of army or is it a matter of security?

JV: Vojne baze u Srbiji, koliko se sećam, do pre dve godine, imale su velike ograde, veoma visoke zidove, ali to se značajno promenilo. Ograde su sada napravljene od žice, tako da možete da vidite kroz njih, možete da vidite šta se dešava unutar baze, mislim, građani mogu videti. Koliko sam imao prilike da vidim u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama, vrlo je slično. Koji je razlog tome? Da li je to stvar transparentnosti rada vojske ili pitanje bezbednosti?

There is always a security aspect. That is why we have a fence, in the first places. We need to have security. As far as transparency, I personally think it’s very important, because, again, we work for the citizens of the country. We get our soldiers and airmen from the citizens. So it’s important to them to know what we do. And well I’ll tell you that transparency, there are of course programs that are classified that not everyone knows about. Vast majority of what we do needs to be transparent to the citizens of the country, that’s why we are here, for the citizens. So I think that that helps with the trust, if there is a natural disaster and Ohio National Guard’s men show up, and the citizens see uniform and they trust us, then that helps them psychologically, they know somebody is there to help, the government cares, somebody cares. So there is a huge psychological advantage of having someone in a uniform showing up whenever there is a national disaster. And we cannot betray that trust, we have to keep that trust with the citizens.

Uvek postoji bezbednost kao aspekt. Zbog toga pre svega i imamo ograde. Moramo imati sigurnost. Što se tiče transparentnosti, lično smatram da je veoma važna, opet, zbog toga što mi radimo za građane naše zemlje. Iz redova građana dobijamo vojnike i avijatičare. Njima je važno da znaju šta mi radimo. Što se tiče transparentnosti, postoje naravno programi koji su poverljivi i za koje niko ne zna. Većina onoga što radimo treba da bude transparentna za građane naše zemlje, zbog toga smo i ovde, zbog građana. Zato mislim da takav način pomaže izgradnji poverenja, ukoliko se desi elemntarna nepogoda i pojavi se pripadnik Nacionalne garde, ljudi vide uniformu i oni nam veruju. To im pomaže psihološki, znaju da je neko tu da im pomogne, država brine, neko brine. Tako da postoji velika psihološka prednost znajući da imate nekoga u uniformi ko će se pojaviti kada se desi elementarna katastrofa. I mi ne smemo izdati to poverenje,  moramo da očuvamo poverenje kod građana.  

JV: Mr. Snulo thank you for your time. Bila je ovo emislija 15 minuta. Razgovarali smo sa Generalom Gregorijem Šnulom, zamenikom komandanta Nacionalne garde Ohaja. Moje ime je Predrag Blagojević.

JV: G-dine Snulo, hvala na Vašem vremenu.